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TOPIC: license won't work with upgrade
#631
license won't work with upgrade 15 Years, 4 Months ago  
I just upgraded to 3.5 and when I run it,it's running as a demo version. I tried installing the licence, but when I click on it, it just takes me back to the trial page.

If you are going to offer an upgrade, but not honor an "old" license key, you have a responsibility to tell people BEFORE they upgrade. Otherwise you are trapping people into paying for an upgrade they don't really want.

[ November 11, 2004, 07:02 PM: Message edited by: Brian T. Pence ]
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#632
Re: license won't work with upgrade 15 Years, 4 Months ago  
Not only that, but now I can't even run it in trial mode waiting for you to answer my question. Now I have to uninstall the "upgrade" version and try to find my original version to reinstall. If you really believed in your product, you wouldn't resort to extortion to sell your product. :( :( :(
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#633
Re: license won't work with upgrade 15 Years, 4 Months ago  
No extortion here. You can always return to a prior version:

http://www.celestialsoftware.net/telnet/AbsoluteTelnet3.13.exe

The download page clearly states this:

If you've already installed a prior version of AbsoluteTelnet, this download will upgrade you to 3.50. Registered users get one year of upgrades FREE!! Additional upgrades can be purchased for a reduced price.
I'm not sure how much clearer I can be. I try to let you know that the new version might cost you more money, I let you try it for 30 days for free, and I let you go back to an older version if not satisfied.

What else do you want?

Brian
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#634
Re: license won't work with upgrade 15 Years, 4 Months ago  
And another question.... why can't you run 3.50 in trial mode?
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#635
Re: license won't work with upgrade 15 Years, 4 Months ago  
I still haven't seen a response to my post, even though I posted only three minutes after your last message. Let me just close this thread by saying that I'm sorry if you feel like you were tricked into upgrading. That is never my intention.

Obviously, I always suggest that users upgrade! I mean, that's how I make my money after all and I'm sure nobody expects me to work for free. However, I never FORCE upgrades. I try to put something into every new version that gives users a compelling reason to WANT to upgrade, but the choice is still up to YOU. And, if you want to return to an older version, that's entirely your choice as well. I have all of the old versions back to 2.13 available as downloads. Again, YOUR choice.

Later...

Brian
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#636
Re: license won't work with upgrade 15 Years, 4 Months ago  
Originally posted by Brian T. Pence:
And another question.... why can't you run 3.50 in trial mode?
How the hell should I know? You author, me user.

I tried to run 3.5, but it kept cycling back to the pop up window that asked to register the key or pay for the upgrade. I surmised that the program was looking back at the original date I installed the first version, found it was over 30 days and so quit working.

As for the notification, it's inadequate. When I run Absolute, it frequently asks me to upgrade. Which in the past I have done. I do so not to get any new great features, but due to security issues. It's become standard fare to "always upgrade to the most recent version" for bug fixes and security patches. When I click on that button, I have no idea if I'm in the 1 year time or not.

As for 3.13, thanks, I thought I was running 3.18 before the "upgrade."

[ November 12, 2004, 12:38 PM: Message edited by: madashell ]
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#637
Re: license won't work with upgrade 15 Years, 4 Months ago  
How many days does it say that you've used the software? The 30-day limit is not a span of time, but rather a count of the number of days you used the software in trial mode. I suppose you may have used all 30 days with a prior version. Periodically, I reset the 30-day limit so users who used up their time on a prior version can get another 30-day trial with a newer version, but I can't do that too often or you'd be able to run continuously in trial mode.

Is the popup preventing you from using the app?? You say it 'keeps cycling back to the pop up'. It SHOULD only display once at startup.

I'm not sure how frequently you're getting asked to upgrade. The last version (which was 3.13) was released about 6 months ago (details here http://www.celestialsoftware.net/telnet/versions.html). When you're asked to upgrade, you can always decline and you won't be asked again until a new version comes out.

Now let me ask you a question... How would you expect the end-user experience of automatic notification and upgrading to go? Can you tell me specifically what information you as a consumer would like to have at each point in the process in order to make each decision clear (upgrade/don't upgrade, buy/don't buy)?

Be specific.

Here are the rules, though:

1. The application will notify you in some way that an upgrade is available and suggest you upgrade

2. Upgrades are sometimes, but not always, free

3. Detailed information about each version is available on the web site (www.celestialsoftware.net/telnet/versions.html)

4. Detailed information about when and what you purchased is available to you on the web site. (see the 'my account' page)

Brian
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#638
Re: license won't work with upgrade 15 Years, 4 Months ago  
I believe upgrades should always be broken down to 2 grades:

full and maintenance.

full updates should be a whole number newer. ie, 3.13 to 4, and there should be enough changes/features to warrant paying the extra money. They can be charged for these types of updates and they should be elective and offer real benefits, not maintenance issues.

maintenance updates should always be free and they are to fix bugs, security issues, compatibility issues, etc. They should always be decimal updates, is, 3.13 to 3.18 or whatever, and they should always be free and should always be done.
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#639
Re: license won't work with upgrade 15 Years, 4 Months ago  
Originally posted by Brian T. Pence:
How many days does it say that you've used the software? The 30-day limit is not a span of time, but rather a count of the number of days you used the software in trial mode. I suppose you may have used all 30 days with a prior version. Periodically, I reset the 30-day limit so users who used up their time on a prior version can get another 30-day trial with a newer version, but I can't do that too often or you'd be able to run continuously in trial mode.
It showed only 1 day used, 29 left. But when I clicked on continue, it just reloaded that same dialogue box. Never did get to the program.


Be specific.

Here are the rules, though:

1. The application will notify you in some way that an upgrade is available and suggest you upgrade

Sure, but it should tell us whether this is maintenance update or a features update. Maintenance updates should be mostly automatic.


3. Detailed information about each version is available on the web site (www.celestialsoftware.net/telnet/versions.html)

4. Detailed information about when and what you purchased is available to you on the web site. (see the 'my account' page)

Brian
Too much work, too much time. I want to do my work, not spend time on your site. Sorry, but that's just reality for me. When we buy a program it should have that info in the registration key. Certainly date of purchase. Your side could easly then determine if it's 1 year or not. But like I said, I disagree with that. I think maintenance should be part of the plan right from the start.

But regardless, you could code date of purchase in the key and that would enable you to notify people if it's a free update or pay.
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#640
Re: license won't work with upgrade 15 Years, 4 Months ago  
In your scenario, major upgrades are always paid, while minor upgrades are always free. In my implementation, major and minor upgrades are both free, but for only one year.

It's a tradeoff. I mean really, how long do you expect a software vendor to provide updates to old software? A year seems pretty generous. For example, if you bought 2.13 in December of last year, you could upgrade all the way to 3.50 at no additional charge. If you bought Windows98 a month before Windows ME came out, do you think you could get ME for free?

As for the decision to upgrade, it's entirely up to you!! If the features are compelling, you'll do it. If they aren't, you won't. If you're not sure, you can try the software and then make the decision once you've actually experienced the new stuff.

Heck, I still use Office97 because I don't see a compelling reason to go further. Some with my development software. I'm still using Visual Studio 6. I won't go to .NET unless I'm forced.

That said, the user experience really seems to be where you got ticked off. You felt like the offer of the uprade must imply that it would be free. I'm still refining the process, but I try to indicate everywhere (when you purchase, when you download, etc..) that upgrades are only free for one year. Which version did you initially purchase? When did you purchase?

User impression is EVERYTHING. I don't want anyone to feel tricked. That's why I asked for your opinion on how you think the exchange should have gone. What did you need to know an when did you need to know it? Clearly, you skipped reading the messages on the web site that indicate you might have to pay for the upgrade. If I had provided more information in other places, would you have skipped over that as well?

Brian
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#641
Re: license won't work with upgrade 15 Years, 4 Months ago  
It showed only 1 day used, 29 left. But when I clicked on continue, it just reloaded that same dialogue box. Never did get to the program.
That shouldn't happen. Could be a bug. Can you provide more information?? I always give a free copy to users who discover bugs.

Sure, but it should tell us whether this is maintenance update or a features update. Maintenance updates should be mostly automatic. Wow! It's enough of a stretch for me as a programmer to provide the automatec notification. Now you want automatic maintenance updates for 43 older released versions of my software!! I'm only one guy after all! My simplified approach is to notify you that the update is available and let you decide if you want it or not. This only happens a couple of times a year, after all... The dialog shows your current version and the newly detected version number. If you want more detail, you can view the version history on the web site.

Perhaps, if in the notification dialog it would tell you the price of the upgrade and whether you could get it for free, that would suffice? It's at least more information that you can use in making your decision. Of course, if you don't read the dialog and just install the software, we're back to square 1.
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#642
Re: license won't work with upgrade 15 Years, 4 Months ago  
Originally posted by Brian T. Pence:
It showed only 1 day used, 29 left. But when I clicked on continue, it just reloaded that same dialogue box. Never did get to the program.
That shouldn't happen. Could be a bug. Can you provide more information?? I always give a free copy to users who discover bugs.
I'll have to reinstall it to see what happened. The only thing I did that was out of the ordinary was that when I installed 3.5 and ran it, it said it was a trial version. I clicked on add key, but I didn't knwo the code. So I went thru my email and found the original key and clicked on it (thinking it would recognize it and install it.) Which took me back to the same trial screen.
But still could not go forward.



Sure, but it should tell us whether this is maintenance update or a features update. Maintenance updates should be mostly automatic. Wow! It's enough of a stretch for me as a programmer to provide the automatec notification. Now you want automatic maintenance updates for 43 older released versions of my software!! I'm only one guy after all!
You could just go to a page that has a list of all previous versions and then the person would pick the one they want.


Perhaps, if in the notification dialog it would tell you the price of the upgrade and whether you could get it for free, that would suffice?
yes, that would be very good.
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#643
Re: license won't work with upgrade 15 Years, 4 Months ago  
Originally posted by Brian T. Pence:

That said, the user experience really seems to be where you got ticked off. You felt like the offer of the uprade must imply that it would be free. I'm still refining the process, but I try to indicate everywhere (when you purchase, when you download, etc..) that upgrades are only free for one year. Which version did you initially purchase? When did you purchase?
3.x Purchase date was July 31st 2003.


User impression is EVERYTHING. I don't want anyone to feel tricked. That's why I asked for your opinion on how you think the exchange should have gone. What did you need to know an when did you need to know it? Clearly, you skipped reading the messages on the web site that indicate you might have to pay for the upgrade. If I had provided more information in other places, would you have skipped over that as well?

Brian[/QB]
If it was on the little pop up window that notifies me of the upgrade available when I start absolute, I would read that.
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